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The Aerpod
Aviation professionals discussing aviation professions.
The Aerpod
How To Actually Get Ahead In Aviation (with Pilot Annie)
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In this episode of The Aerpod, Mitchell sits down with Annie Vogel, also known as Pilot Annie, to talk about building a life and career in aviation without following the traditional path. From discovering flying almost by accident to building an audience around general aviation and eventually turning that passion into an aviation-focused creative agency, Annie’s career is a case study in what can happen when you put yourself out there and stay involved in the industry.
Annie shares how networking opened doors to flying across northern Canada and Alaska, experiencing remote operations in the Arctic, and working throughout the aviation industry. They also discuss the less obvious jobs pilots overlook while chasing the airlines, building a reputation online, whether there’s room for vulnerability in aviation, the changing role of influencers, AI-generated content, and what the future of general aviation could look like.
In this episode:
- How Annie discovered aviation and earned her pilot certificates
- Why she chose general aviation instead of the traditional airline path
- Flying through British Columbia, the Yukon, Northwest Territories, and Alaska
- The unusual flying experiences and opportunities GA can provide
- Why networking is “the key to everything in aviation”
- How simply showing up at airports, organizations, and industry events can open doors
- Why aspiring pilots shouldn't overlook unconventional flying jobs
- The importance of the “character building years” early in an aviation career
- How online networking compares with meeting people face-to-face
- Turning an aviation social media following into real career opportunities
- How your online reputation can help or hurt your aviation career
- Whether there is room for vulnerability and authenticity in aviation content
- How aviation social media and influencers have changed general aviation
- Storytelling, authenticity, and what actually works online today
- AI-generated content and where creative work is headed
- Building Avian Creative into an aviation-focused marketing agency
- Why understanding aviation matters when marketing aviation companies
- The challenges facing general aviation and bringing new people into the industry
- Annie’s advice for creating opportunities instead of waiting for them to appear
About the guest:
Annie Vogel is a pilot, storyteller, content creator, and founder of Avian Creative, a full-service marketing agency focused on the aviation industry. Known online as Pilot Annie, she has spent nearly 15 years immersed in GA while sharing her flying experiences with an audience of nearly 60,000. Through Avian Creative, Annie and her team work with aviation companies across multiple segments of the industry, combining aviation knowledge with content production, branding, digital marketing, and storytelling.
Today's guest needs a little introduction, but just in case, Annie Vogel has grown an audience of nearly 60,000 online, sharing her adventures in general aviation and backcountry flying. She also owns Aviant Creative, a full-scale digital marketing agency specializing in the aviation industry. She's worked with some of the biggest names in aviation, from Skies Magazine to Lycoming, producing content and managing marketing efforts across the world. We discuss careers in general aviation, the current state of AI in creative media, how influencers have affected the aviation world, and much, much more. My name is Mitchell. This is the AirPod. Now let's hear more about Annie.
SPEAKER_01My name is Annie, and I'm a GA pilot. Uh GA has been like my obsession for like nearly 15 years now, which is kind of crazy. And um I fly recreationally, but before I got pulled into this world of flying, I was an avid writer, storyteller, um, content creator still, just in a different format back then. It was like before social media had really kicked off in a number of different ways. And um, and so when I started flying, all I wanted to do was write about it and share that whole journey. Um, and so I have been doing that now for a while, but that also kind of spurned my business or was the big the seed that, you know, um gave birth to Avian Creative, which is a full service marketing agency that supports aviation businesses specifically. And um yeah, we've we've been around now for five years and um we've supported dozens of different companies uh within the aviation industry. Um, and and not just specifically within GA. That just happens to be something that I'm really passionate about. But um it certainly helps um because now obviously being involved in the industry for so long, I have a pretty good understanding of like what's going on in in a lot of different areas within this big niche.
SPEAKER_00How did you get into GA? What was that kind of spark that led to that passion?
SPEAKER_01I feel like actually a lot of pilots can relate to the idea of kind of being a lost soul. Sometimes whenever I tell people about my journey and how I came across aviation, there's all these like shared um, I don't know, um, instances where people can relate to this. And so I had graduated from university um and really just didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life. And so I took um almost two years to go travel abroad. And so I moved to New Zealand, um, lived there for a year, then I moved to Australia. And while I was living in Australia, I was aware of the fact that I would be moving home pretty soon. Um, my father was diagnosed with flu gear eggs, and I knew I was it was time to get home, but um, I still didn't really know what I wanted to do when I got back home. And I was living in this really beautiful part of the West Coast where they had lots of like marine life. And right next to my house, um, there was this dirt strip that had a bunch of 150s operating out of it to um basically operate as spotter planes. So they would take off um every day looking for whale sharks and humpbacks and manta rays and all sorts of um different, you know, sea creatures, and um then they would radio down to the harbor and let them know where to find them so that when the, you know, when they took the snorkeling boats out with the tourists, they were guaranteed to see something really cool. And um, and I just every day I would see these planes take off. And I was like, that would actually be such a cool job. Just like being a spotter pilot. And so um, fast forward to moving uh home. I had done a lot of research in that time as to like how to even get into the world of aviation. And holy, that was like so overwhelming, intimidating. There's so many different pathways, everyone has a different opinion. A lot of people like to scare you about it. So I I literally call it, I contacted like colleges, I contacted um anyone that I knew that knew somebody that was a pilot, like an airline pilot or like Bush pilot, anything like that. And um after doing more research into it, I realized that private doing it privately, like through um like a local flight school was probably the fastest and uh best way for me personally, anyway, at the time. And so that's when I started my private license. Um and then yeah, and I uh got my private in a pretty short amount of time. I think it was really like within five months that I got my private license. Um, but that's also when my dad was getting increasingly more sick. And I just got really overwhelmed by everything and just like the amount of debt I was accruing by like the status of like, you know, this potential career and it not necessarily keeping me close to home. Um, so I put a pause on it after I did my night rating. And um, I just got like a big girl job, worked insurance, worked as a firefighting dispatcher, worked like a million other jobs to try and like, you know, feed the dream. But I still continued flying. Um, and I just I just got really in tune with the GA community at my local airport. I would like wash planes, help people like reupholster, you know, their interiors, whatever they needed help with that would get me close to airplanes, I did. Um, and then I started volunteering a lot too for women in aviation organizations. Um, and that was really helpful as well for a number of reasons. Again, like just networking, um, meeting new people, meeting people with like similar interests was really cool. Um and then it wasn't until I think like five years later that my dad had already passed and I decided to give commercial my commercial a go. So I got my commercial pilot's license. Um, but I'd never really wanted to fly for the airlines or anything like that. I always wanted to be a bush pilot. Like that's what I wanted to do. I always really wanted to see the world, and that was, in my opinion, like the coolest way to do it. So um, although I had never became a bush pilot, a lot of things happened uh like in that timeline too. Life is really weird. You can make all your plans and it'll throw like so many wrenches in the way. But um, COVID happened, obviously, and that screwed up a lot of different timelines for a lot of different people. And um it was around then that I started to get a lot of uh messages uh from businesses asking if I could support them with their social media platforms. So all the while when I was doing all these things, like you know, helping at these different organizations and um going flying and you know, doing all the GA things, I was posting about it. And that that, you know, that social media following had a had grown enough that it was gathering a bit of attention. And um, I just started to get a lot of businesses reaching out to me, being like, oh, can you do this for us? Can you do this for us? Can you do this for us? And so I started to really notice a need. And um, so I started a business. I still started a sole proprietorship and started, you know, taking clients in my home office. And um it just referral after referral came through and it they just didn't stop. And so I hired my first full-time employee and then my second employee, and then we moved into an office, and then suddenly we needed designers and we needed videographers and we needed all these, you know, highly skilled people. And um, now five years in, we're a team of seven and um we're full scale, so we do everything. But it's so funny because you know, looking back at it, I was still like, I want to fly planes in Africa. And I haven't done that yet. I still have every intention to, but um, it's been really cool as well because what what I do, we we support so many different um companies within the industry. And uh some of some of that is uh content creation and production. So I'm often on site with clients um telling their story um and also learning it and figuring out how best to tell that story. And uh it's taken me to some really cool places and they're places that I never would have had a chance to experience otherwise. So it's really cool because I get to see um into so many different avenues within the aviation industry, but also so many. Um, I mean, I've sat jump seat on so many different airplanes, and it's been really cool to to learn about them. I'm always a little bit sad that I'm not PIC. There's always like this little part of me that it's like, maybe I should just give up the business and like apply to here. But that's that honestly is like, I feel like if I if I don't continue to have that, then I just know I've reached my max or my peak in this career as a marketing professional in this industry because like you kind of always like want to know more, that curiosity, that like inspiration. Um so yeah, that's uh I I that I think that's all. I can't I'm I'm probably missed a whole bunch of stuff in that story. So that's a that's the gist of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I have such an appreciation for people that have no real ties to aviation finding it as they're going into adulthood. Because for me, and I think a lot of people, it's like, you know, third generation pilot. My grandpa flew in World War II, my dad has had his private, and I know a bunch of people that they've had a dad and a grandfather that flew for the airlines and they're going to fly for the airlines. And then I love talking to people that just look up in the sky and they're like, that looks kind of cool. How do I do that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, and it's it's funny because it's um it seemed so simple at the time, and looking back at it, it's really not. Um, there's so many hurdles you have to jump to make this happen, and it is totally consuming. And if you don't like dedicate your entire being to it, it it might not work out, and that's kind of the reality of aviation, and that's the hard truth that I think a lot of people were trying to tell me when I was just getting into it. But I think too, I will say is that a lot of people have opinions and not all of them are correct. Um, and there, you know, I've got I got a lot of advice that looking back at it, I was like, wow, that really steered me down this one path that um that was unnecessary or like um discouraged me at a point where I needed encouragement. Um so yeah, there's I mean it's it's just it's the most wonderful, amazing thing, aviation in general, but it comes with its hardships for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's kind of pick your poison with which way you go in aviation, even um the flying to go spot marine life is another one of those things. I've talked to so many people, and as long as I've been around aviation, there's always some new thing I didn't know that people did with aircraft. And to have the tour companies be like, hey, go find where the cool stuff is so we can take people to it is another one that I just never would have thought of. And when you hear it, you're like, Oh yeah, that makes sense. But in the moment, you're like, oh, what what are planes used for? Like now I know surveys and banner towing and all that stuff, but that's a whole new avenue that I've now discovered.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it was it was really unique, it was really special, and it's so funny too. Sometimes I'm like, if I hadn't ended up at that coastal beach town, would I ever have become a pilot? And like, I don't know, maybe, maybe not, but um, I want to go back there one day though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you should fly there. That'd be a great full circle moment.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. It's definitely on the bucket list.
SPEAKER_00When you started sharing your journey online, did you have any plan behind it or any intentionality of, you know, maybe I'm gonna grow this into something, or it was just like I'm doing something cool and I'll post about it? Pilots know how much their equipment matters. When I was doing aerial survey work, a good headset was the difference between a comfortable day in the air and an all-night headache. The Lightspeed Zulu 3 is a favorite among pilots for a reason. Premium active noise reduction, all day comfort, and built to last, with plush ear seals, durable Kepler cables, and industry leading seven-year warranty. It's Lightspeed's most enduring headset yet. Purchase your Zulu 3 at the affiliate link in the description. Now back to Annie.
SPEAKER_01No, there was like no plan at all. Um so I literally cannot remember a time where I wasn't writing. Um, I legitimately, as like a six-year-old girl, could remember writing. When I was a teenager in high school, I wrote for my local newspapers, I wrote for like my school newspaper, I I started writing for all these magazines for sports that I was interested in. And so when I started to fly, it was like such a natural thing for me to want to share it. And because of the like at that point of time where social media was, it was like a cool, quick, like almost like a quick news story, like about my experience. And so it was, and I loved photography and videography. I took uh photography all through high school and actually thought seriously about pursuing it as um as a career, just as a photographer. Um and now I get to do it all the time, which is great too. But um that that those two passions came together so beautifully, like with the evolution of social media. And then I think if you are passionate about anything, it bleeds through everything you do. And um, and so it just naturally um kind of like picked up on its own. And I mean, I have to say too though, like when you see people like engaging with your posts, it only makes you want to post more. So it certainly like encouraged me and like you know, kept me going. Um, but it was certainly never something I had like done very intentionally for a following or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00I think too, a a lot of what I've seen of what you've posted is stuff that at least a few years ago wasn't as common, like the backcountry flying, like more of the bush plane kind of stuff where you know most people are living in that world of going through flight training on an airline path, or um, you know, it's like the owner flown Bonanza or Cirrus or whatever, where the Bush pilot stuff until probably the last, I think probably until post-COVID wasn't all that common and popular for people to see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, like I still remember when I was first really introduced to it, and it was just before COVID hit. It was like the year before COVID hit, and um, and it was the you know, the flying cowboys in uh, you know, kind of Nevada and Utah area that started posting to YouTube and were just like posting all these crazy adventures with their airplanes, and I was like, whoa, well, that's what that's what I've always wanted. And because, you know, I wasn't at the time pursuing it as a career, and I was still involved in GA, certainly didn't own an airplane, didn't really know how to get into that, but that certainly like inspired me in a lot of different ways. But yeah, you're right. Um, I mean, I think that I I think that backcountry aviation is still growing in a lot of different ways. I think it it's like, you know, there was a time where it really peaked a few years ago, um, and I think it's still kind of um tracking in that direction, but but certainly a lot of people caught on to it then, including myself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think there's a lot of growth in the kit plane space too that's helping that out. Where um, you know, even 10 years ago it was like you had to get a 185 or uh you know a cub or something similar, where now there's a lot of kit planes that offer really nice backcountry flying opportunities where you're not, you know, two, three, four hundred thousand dollars to get into an aircraft. So that's always nice to see. You mentioned that you started having companies reach out to you uh when you were posting online. What was it about maybe the way you posted, or do you think it was just coincidence that they came across your stuff to start reaching out?
SPEAKER_01Um I think it was like a combination of just like the feed itself and then also just my like um, I guess my networking in the community. So I think that having put my name forward to volunteer for the all these organizations, my name had just started to cycle around. I also was writing for a bunch of different aviation magazines at the time. Um so I think it was like the combination of those two things that people were like, oh, like she's a writer, she has a social media following, she seems to understand how this works and she has an interest in aviation. Um and then it was I I literally got two people knocking or two businesses knocking on my door at the same time. And um and I was like, wow, like this is kind of weird. Um, kind of a coincidence. Um, and then it just like snowballed from there. It was just and then yeah, and now five years later, it's kind of all our business is so referral-based, so it's been really cool.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Do you have something that stands out in your mind as like the coolest opportunity that's come from the online space?
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. Uh, there's so many. So well some were like opportunities that I really had to put myself out there for. So um, for example, there was one like kind of like scholarship opportunity that I had applied for. Um, and I was selected as a recipient, and I got to fly with a gentleman in his pipestrol from British Columbia through the Yukon, the Northwest Territories into Alaska, which was as like a new GA pilot, was like an insane experience. Like it was just so cool. Um but outside of that, too, like with a lot of the brands that we support, I get to do a lot of cool things with them, which is awesome. Um uh one of the one of our clients, um, they're air called their Tindy, and they're out in the Northwest Territories, and they support um, you know, just remote communities and, you know, SCED flights, but also cargo runs, and they operate uh Dash Sevens um as well as twin otters and a number of other aircraft, but those are the two really cool ones, in my opinion. And so just flying through like the subarctic to the Arctic, like with them landing on like crazy gravel strips where, you know, suddenly they're pulling out all this cargo and then they have helicopters coming in to long line these things elsewhere, like those were really cool experiences. And um, I don't know, like seeing beluga's in the Arctic is so amazing and mesmerizing, or like in the high sierras, you know, flying low alongside like a herd of Mustang. Like there's so many really like kind of like I don't know, like visceral experiences you get to have as a pilot. Um, like I certainly like there's just there's so many cool ones.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Have you read Hatchet?
SPEAKER_01No, I haven't.
SPEAKER_00That was a book I read as a kid, and I just tried to get my daughter to read it, and she wasn't as interested as I was. But it's a kid that was flying basically through, I don't remember if it was Canada, but similar terrain to the Northwest Territories. I forget all the details, but basically his pilot like had a medical emergency and crashed and he had to survive out in the wilderness on his own as like a 14-year-old boy or something. But no story of flying a pipestrol through the Northwest Territories just reminded me of that. Like that's the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. No, you'll I'll have to check out that book for sure. But yeah, no, the north is a crazy place. Like northern Canada is it's beautiful, it is so gorgeous, and um it makes you feel very small, very, very small.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure. I've done Alaska a couple times, and same kind of feeling where you just look out at the landscape and things look like they're close, but but just because they're so big, and then you realize just how empty it all is out there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, pretty crazy. Well, I mean, even with like the prep for that, it was like yeah, sure, you have all this survival gear, um, and um you obviously are like kind of already as a pilot trained for like you know, an emergency, especially like forced landings. But like the big thing in the north about like it's not even the crash itself, it's like what happens after the crash. Like, do you like do you have the capability to survive out there? Um and like sometimes it's like the simple things like do you have bug spray and a bug net? Because like you could literally go crazy from how bad the bugs are in some areas. So anyway, it's very, very interesting. I I don't have as much experience in the north as I'd like, but um, I'm sure I'll get there one day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my mom likes to read history books and she was telling me the Spanish conquistadors when they came to Mexico, the mosquitoes were so bad that they would bury themselves in the sand and put their helmets over their face because they were just going insane, getting eaten up by mosquitoes.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I could definitely see how the bugs could drive you nuts, especially after the trauma of a plane crash and all the other stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Uh you talked about joining some groups, going out to the airport, washing airplanes, reupholstering interiors and stuff. How important do you think aviation networking is if you're looking to be in aviation as a career?
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, it's like the key to everything in aviation. It's just such a small network of people. I don't get me wrong, there's like plenty of us, but it's so weird how things overlap. And so much of it is word of mouth. And um unless you're like putting yourself out there, not and not in a variety of ways, just like I mean, putting yourself out there isn't just like showing up at a place. It's like being engaged, being interested, being curious, um, asking for opportunities too, sometimes. I legitimately would post um on notice boards, um, like, you know, pilot so-and-so hours experience on these aircraft, really looking for any like flight opportunities, like open to um like flight clubs or um, you know, block buying block time, or just even like uh safety pilot, you know, being somebody's safety pilot or any anything like that. And I and I got calls from that too. So there's like there's so many, you just like have to, you have to really want it, I suppose. Um, but it it seem it seems like a lot of work when I say it that way. But when you really love something, it's just like you're just so like, I don't know, excited to dive into it that it's really it doesn't feel like that big of an effort when you're sitting in it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it was awesome because I met so many people and on also just like walking around your local airport and like peeking into the hangers that are open and introducing yourself. And like everyone in aviation wants to tell you about, you know, their airplane or like where they've flown and share some, you know, history with you. So there's a lot of people that are really willing to share their knowledge with you. And I think it's just a matter of making the time to like, you know, take it all in. And so I did that very, very well when I was younger. I have to definitely give myself credit for that. Um, so yeah, I think that that that is one great way. And then yeah, there's so many cool organizations in aviation, like so many. There's like restoration projects at museums. There's um, you know, vintage airplane associations that are trying to, you know, keep airplanes flying. There's, you know, women in aviation organizations, obviously, but there's there's just like there's so many different things going on, and they need people, like desperately, truthfully, in a lot of respects. And so um, if you just start showing up, you'll get those opportunities. Uh, one of the ones I volunteered for too, there's um in Canada, we have um it's the Canadian Harvard Association. So the Harvard is like our version of the T6. And um, and it happened to be like at an airport just like 20 minutes from my house. And so I started going there and um became like a what do they call us? They gave us a cute little title, but it was like a service support something. Like knew nothing about the airplane, but was there to learn about it and like scrub it and like help with anything that I could help with, any events and just like fundraising and and things like that. And it was awesome. It was really, really cool. You got to spend a lot of time around a lot of really knowledgeable people. Um, learn something about a you know, really cool trainer, um, a World War II trainer. And yeah, that was really great too. So definitely like that. Is the like it's and in the network, it's like kind of weird how it always comes back around. Like, I'll I'll see people now that I haven't seen since those days. And then maybe they have like they're up to something cool right now and they want to like pull me in on it. So it's um yeah, it's really interesting how it keeps kind of showing up in different ways. You never want to burn bridges in this industry either, because it it will it will come and bite you in the butt.
SPEAKER_00When you're talking about reaching out for those opportunities, I get so many comments on some of the clips that I post to people like I can't find you know a plane to fly, or I can't find a job, or you know, I'm a 2,000-hour CFI and can't find work, blah, blah, blah. And it's just I there's definitely people that have a harder time than others. There, some people just get stuck in a shitty situation and they have bad luck and strike out, but I know so many people that have gotten so many opportunities just because of the conversations they were willing to have, and maybe go on a route that they didn't originally plan to go down or want to go down. And it was like one step back and five steps forward because of that. And it drives me crazy when I hear people that are like, oh, there's no opportunities out there. It's like there's endless opportunities, and you just gotta be willing to either do something for free or just I don't know, take a back seat for a minute.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think a lot of people also forget that like these are their character building years. Like this is when, like, this is really like the adventurous part of your career, the beginnings of it. And so I think some people would get really like, um, and no, they have their sights set on the airlines and they have an idea in their heads of like what that progression looks like, and they don't actually consider all these really amazing opportunities that have the potential to make them an even better pilot, truthfully. Um and yeah, sometimes those opportunities are a lot harder work for a lot less pay. That's the reality of it. Um, and I mean, I I I've never done it myself, but I've seen like so many of my friends, um, loved ones, um, you know, people in the industry, my clients when they're hiring, like I've seen this happen so often. Um, like, yeah, it it's not glory, it's not as glamorous as like people make it out to be. And you have to like really want it. And and sometimes that means, yeah, you're on the ground ramping, or you're like a glorified flight attendant for an airline, you know, hauling cargo out and hoping to get in that pick seat, um, or not even pick seat, but FO seat, um, at some point. But yeah, you're learning, you're networking, you're meeting people. Um, and yeah, there's just so many different avenues. And don't get me wrong, I think too, I've also um I've I've also seen how discouraging it can be to continue to put a really like Herculean effort into your job perspectives and not have anything kind of like fruitful come of them. So I can also sympathize with that. But sometimes I think it's the less obvious path that sometimes actually has like some of the coolest opportunities. And that's why I'm always such a big proponent for like northern flying um or like international flying, if you can get out to a different country and do that. But um, but especially like in Canada. Um, and I imagine too in the US, maybe there's opportunities in Alaska, but in in northern Canada, they're like they're there's generally always positions people are hiring for. You just gotta wanna move to, you know, you know, some podug town somewhere.
SPEAKER_00There's a guy that used to work for me that went to fly dead bodies in Alaska.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00I guess those little villages way up north, it's you don't think about it, but they probably can't bury them if it's like permafrost kind of deal. And I don't know if they have crematoriums or what, but his job was to go pick up bodies and then fly them back to Anchorage or wherever. Like that's a pretty wild gig. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, that would be. But yeah, we need we need people to do that, I'm sure. So that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00How do you think aviation networking differs from I I don't even know a good example, but the average industry, like banking or finance or something?
SPEAKER_01I mean I feel like obviously this is a very biased perspective. I don't really honestly have too many insight into like how other industries and their networking processes are, but I think just kind of tying back to what I was saying earlier, it's such a small industry that um you can impact it a lot more quickly, too, actually, I think as well.
SPEAKER_03So, like, for example, um generally speaking, when I'm looking at like a prospective client roster and I'm thinking about like businesses I would be really excited to work with.
SPEAKER_01I like put this list together. And then I think about okay, like who are the decision makers at these companies? Like what are their names? What like what do they do? What what position is that business in in general? I'll do all this research. And then, you know, eight out of ten pla times, if I go to a show, a conference, and go to that booth, I'll find that person and I'll be able to like, you know, speak to them about whatever it is that I have in mind for their business that I think would be really cool. Um, I don't know if that's that common in other industries. I think like other industries are just so much bigger that you don't have these like kind of like um hyper specific shows for that one niche. Like when I think about it, you know, there's Verticon, because we do rotor wing as well. Verticon is like the biggest in North America and the world. Obviously, there's European rotors too, but then you know, there's two shows for the you know, the whole helicopter industry. And then for fixed wing, depending if you're jets or if you're something else, but there's like NBAA or GA's Oshkosh. And so like there's these like very niche specific events where you could like most times find the people that you want to talk to. Um, if that's what your if that's what your goal is anyway. Um and I mean I don't think it it's it's any different for um well actually it might be different for hiring for airlines. I'm not sure. Um I know that they have like um a lot of conferences for where you can go for job applications and things like that. But I don't know if they've I don't know if they send the decision makers to those ones or not, truthfully. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I don't think Ed Bastion's hanging out at any of those.
SPEAKER_01Maybe I could be probably not.
SPEAKER_00Probably not, but that's an interesting point because uh so I had Halsey on the show and talked with him about why there's no like Delta American United equivalent in the helicopter space. And you know, he had some opinions on that, but operators, I think that's why I like GA. That's why I like helicopters, to some extent, some corporate stuff, even though NetJets is huge now. Um, but yeah, it's like, you know, there's maybe a hundred people at those companies total, not thousands and thousands. So yeah, you really can get to the top pretty quickly when you're trying to have those conversations.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And I think that's like a I don't know if that's a big reason as to why we've been successful at what we do here at my company, but I think A, just genuinely like growing your network as like a person in the industry that wants to have genuine connections with people, like no motive, but just like excited to be a part of the industry is you know one huge benefit. Um, and then the next is like, yeah, um, is outreach. Um, and I think there's a lot of really great ways to connect. And I mean, outside of LinkedIn, there is airway, there is pilot-specific networking tools, um, and social media is a great one too. Um I mean, Instagram's like the first place I go if I want to shop in any respect. Like if I'm shopping for, I don't know, face cream and I'm like interested in like a company, I'll go there. But also if I'm like interested in what a company's doing, it's also where I go to find out more and do more research as well. So that's also like um it's a good tool to market yourself as a as a person or as a business because people can figure out pretty quickly what you stand for and how consistent you are and all these other things that are important to companies. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's interesting how everything's become so much more visual online. And you think about the heyday at Twitter, it's like you had your 160 characters and that was it, no photos or anything, and now it's like I I don't know what the biggest is anymore. I would guess Instagram's probably up there. Um, but Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, it's like all video photo, just very visual in the way everybody communicates now online.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And it's it's interesting too, because it's changed so much. And what I really love about it now is that like storytelling is actually like in the lead for like the highest performing content, which is really cool. Because before you could like post a cute picture of yourself in front of an airplane and it would generally do okay. And now it's like, well, that's not so interesting. And so I kind of love that it's like um people sharing their stories, their adventures, their flights. Um I love that part of it for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it sounds like you've done networking online, you've done networking in person. What's that right balance for somebody working their way into the industry?
SPEAKER_01I think both is so important. Um I think that people will take you a lot more seriously if they have like a like a face-to-face touch point. Um it depends like what your goals are. I think if like I was an individual that was just like looking for, you know, aviation experiences and or jobs, um, I think it's still important. Um, I think if you're an aviation uh or in aviation at all, like as a career, I think it's really great. Um, because you just continue to meet people and like continue to like leverage those relationships to again learn, um, but also um, you know, expand on your knowledge and your career as well. So um there's yeah, I think that being there in person is really important. And I think even too, when I look back at like the last few years, um I started to go to Oshkosh, for example, with my business specifically three years ago. And it was just like in the last year that a lot of the businesses whose doors I knocked on three years ago actually started signing contracts with us. And it wasn't like that first touch point in person, like, cool introduction, nice to meet you, see ya. Second one was like, ah, cool, like how's it been over the last year? What do you guys been working on? And then that kind of like spurned and like spurned that relationship into, you know, actually working together. So it's also consistency and showing up. And um, I don't I think that there's like this theory that it's like um, you know, you have to see something or whether it's consciously or subconsciously, like 21 times before you make a decision to, you know, go down that path, whether it's a purchase or whatever. Um, and I like I'm a big believer of that. You gotta continue to show up in people's faces um and like continue to exist in their minds, because otherwise they'll forget you. And that's just that's just humans, you know, we're just so self-centered. Everyone's just kind of focused on themselves and their own world. And so you got to continue to put the effort to like get in front of those people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh I've had a pilot, well, she does resumes now, but she was a recruiter, and we were talking about going to these conferences and talking to the recruiters at the airlines, and it's like they see hundreds, if not a thousand or two thousand people a day at these conferences. I mean, it's just constant nonstop. So, yeah, they're not going to remember you from one to the next. You just have to keep reminding them, like, hey, we talked here, we talked here, and keep showing up, like you said, and being there for them to finally make the connection. Because even the businesses, you know, as small as GA is, if you have somebody that works at like Cirrus, for instance, and they're doing the whole show circuit, I mean, they're gonna talk to a ton of people. And it's just hard to keep up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think too, there that's kind of like why I think there's so much room for creativity in aviation. Um I don't know. I think that I've seen like a big change in the industry like since I became involved in it. But even in general, when I'm thinking about like you know, John Doe applying to whatever airline, like why not do something different that other people aren't doing that isn't expected? Um and yeah, showing up in person is one great way to do that. But also, I don't know, like making really unique business cards. Um thinking of like actually uh companies really love it when you put thought and effort into like their like to understand their business. So kind of combining combining your goals with what their goals are and kind of showing them how you could be a perfect fit would be interesting. I don't know. I think there's like so many fun ways to do that. Um and and not just like be another, you know, crappy resume in a really big pile of resumes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's hard with the AI like resume processing now and all that stuff. You have to tailor it so the AI actually gets you through to a real person. And I don't envy people going through that process because I know it's gotta be a pain.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, for sure. You know what's so funny is that I actually didn't even consider that when you first said that. I was like, yeah, I bet I bet AI is going through everything and weeding out like all those resumes now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, maybe some of the smaller companies, but definitely you get to the bigger ones that are getting tens of thousands of applications. There's just no way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00As you start to build your network online, I guess maybe what do you think are good platforms to do that in the aviation space? And then what's like a strategy for somebody that is new to the space? Maybe they are an instructor, newly minted instructor, they want to work their way up. And you know, we won't go all the way to the airlines, but they want to do GA as a career. What do you think would be a good recommendation for them?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um well I think that like um employers in general will always look you up on your social profiles. So just like A, making sure that's really clean, concise, it speaks to like your goals, your aspirations. Um, but across all your platforms, really, anything that's public anyway is really important. Um but even outside of that, um putting yourself in the arenas you want to be is really important. So um keeping an ear out for any like in-person opportunities is really important. Um but for a flight instructor specifically, I'm trying to think about what that could potentially look like. Um, I mean, they sometimes have like open houses at different flight schools, so going to any of those. Um oftentimes flight clubs will have like um a group of pilots that are looking for flight instructors too, so that might be a cool opportunity. Um but LinkedIn is really great. I do love it. Um for something more specific and niche like um aviation, um, there's Airway, which is really a cool new platform um that's really great at connecting um aviation professionals. Um but I think too is also just like um being clear about what you're looking for and telling people, honestly, is probably like the number one thing I I would recommend and sharing it and probably oversharing it, being like, hi, my name's Annie, and I want to be a flight instructor in you know the Dallas area, and I'm looking for opportunities. And then because people are naturally like connectors, like we always want to solve people's problems, probably too much. Um and so suddenly, you know, Susie tells Joe that, you know, I just met a girl at this whatever event and she's looking for a job doing this. Um, so I think that is probably like one of the more important things for sure.
SPEAKER_00It's something I've been terrible at. I'm always so like I just have my walls up for everybody, and I I don't want to like give away too much and oh so is it is it secretive though because you don't want to like um you don't want to kind of ruin the surprise or is it if it's when you're working towards something or no I just like don't want to feel like a burden or feel needy like I'm asking other people for to like do me a favor you know I just don't like that feeling so I think I've definitely hurt myself more times than I've helped myself being like too nonchalant about it like oh what are you looking to do like I don't know I'll figure it out kind of instead of being like I'm gonna do this do you know anybody that can help me get here here and here and the people I know that have got the furthest are the best at doing that being like this is what I want to do do you have opportunities?
SPEAKER_01I need more flight time can't do you know anybody whose airplane I can fly yeah it it seems like an inconvenience or kind of annoying when you're like the person asking but I think that most people don't really perceive it that way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it's silly because when people do that to me I'm like oh I'd love to help you. And I'm like why would I why would they think different if I did it to them?
SPEAKER_01It's just like a dumb yeah and I also think too like saying it out loud to other people kind of puts you in a position where you feel like you have to do it. You know what I mean? Like it's almost like somebody else is gonna like kind of hold you accountable for that. So I mean sometimes it can be I mean those conversations can happen in a number of different senses like it can happen with your close family and friends or it can happen with like other you know professionals in the industry. Um so yeah I mean there's just so many, so many different forums for you to ask for help. But I think that um it doesn't even have to be that you're asking for help. You could just say what you want and say like you know I'm so and so and I'm gonna be I'm gonna be looking for X, Y, and Z and I'm really wanting to grow as a pilot in these you know avenues there. You're not asking for anything you're just stating you're almost manifesting in a way you're saying it out loud into the universe and you know and then that way other people hear you and pick up on it and can maybe help you as well.
SPEAKER_00I want to go back to the storytelling because I think that we're in a time where people can do that more efficiently than ever and they have more tools available to them than they've ever had before online in particular. What do you think makes a good story for people to put out there in like the networking career space?
SPEAKER_01That's a great question there's so many different platforms and different ways you could say that like there's so many different stories to tell even just with like that one question. So for LinkedIn specifically I think the stories that people want to hear are like I guess more tied to your work but your passion behind it.
SPEAKER_03And I think if you can tie in like not just like what you did but like the real why behind it that's what's gonna get people reading and I think it's the same in other formats as well.
SPEAKER_01It just has to be it's it's you know you have 30 seconds to do it on Instagram you have a little bit longer to do it and it's like more of a written format on LinkedIn. I think people are very um conscious of AI and just because it is available doesn't mean that you should use it in my opinion. I think it is a great tool for ideation but I think it also hinders your voice and your voice is so special and it makes you who you are and so I would say that especially when it comes to storytelling if it's something that's like really special to you um you should write it in your own words. There's a lot of instances where I use AI to support me in like you know um grammar or like I have like a bunch of ideas and I'm just trying to like get a little clarity as like how I should like I don't know um I guess section things off. But generally speaking like if I'm writing something I'm like typing everything and then putting it through and those are the posts that are usually more successful than others. So I think yeah I mean that's a loaded question. But overall um I think really diving into the why and is like the most important thing in storytelling because I could tell you so many stories about you know me flying here and there but if I didn't tell you why it was special to me or what it meant to me or to the people in the aircraft with me then it wouldn't it wouldn't matter to you. I couldn't make it matter to you. I couldn't make you hear that or see that. So yeah I think that's that's where like the context comes in.
SPEAKER_00Are there any tools or exercises that you would recommend to somebody that maybe hasn't learned how to write in their own voice?
SPEAKER_03I think just like anything it's just doing it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's hard especially if you're not necessarily like um like somebody that's like you know been writing for a very long time and sometimes it's easy to just kind of like write a bunch of words on a piece of paper and like scribble them out or I guess type them. Nobody writes on paper these days. But um I think maybe even notation like um annotation with a device is kind of cool um because it will naturally like obviously record how you naturally speak and your cadence and maybe there's something there around like how how your voice translates in person to like how it comes off on paper. But also just be authentically who you are like I love cussing. I swear way too much I like literally I have to like stop myself from swearing in public formats and and settings. But sometimes I'll I'll drop an F bomb here and there because A, I like it and B, I mean it and like I want people to know that I mean it and and that like that's a part of the story too. So um I don't know I think it's just like really sharing your thoughts and your opinions is um even more valuable now than it ever has been before because you could throw whatever into AI and it'll spit some you know regurgitated beautifully grammatically correct annotation and it sounds exactly like everybody else. So um like just leaning into what you think and like kind of being unapologetic about it too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah one of my big hangups with AI I I've been kind of obsessed with this idea. So I love video essays on YouTube. I there's something those there's something about them that's like it can be about pretty much any topic but the people that do them well it's always interesting to me. And I've been working on this idea I don't know that I would ever actually make one but a video essay about just how homogeneous everything is becoming and how it's like killing and and I'm talking like cell phones, cars, airplanes and now written word with AI and I think that's the one thing that it so quietly has become my new word I can't stand when people are typing things out or like it's quietly becoming one of like I know that was chat GPT at some point I know it was like there's it that's my trigger word. And so that's the kind of stuff that drives me nuts when I can see everything just converging into one type of speech and that's the only way that everything that's online is spoken or written now. Drives me crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I think it'll only like give like at least you and I the the non-believers an opportunity to like really stand out um and I believe that because I think people see through it and and even in like your email communication like granted sure again leverage AI as a tool to to work efficiently absolutely we use it all the time but um I don't ever want to get like some like I don't know like very obviously bought reply to an email that I just put so much care into. And I think especially with clients that are receiving your emails like or I don't know it could be anyone whether it's like you know somebody that's just met you for an interview and you're writing them actually that that did happen more recently. This is a good story. So I had a whole bunch of interviews that we were hiring um here at the company and generally speaking um a lot of people um will send follow-up emails to be like it was so nice meeting with you. So many of them were like word for word the exact same email.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01Because they just were like oh I just want to send a follow-up email to this you know company I had an interview at and then on top of that when I sent them news that they didn't get the the job they wrote back and it was like again the exact same script although I'm so disappointed of this news I what you know it was just like word for word and I was just like you don't even care. You don't even you like you you know I would rather you just I don't know not replied at all at that point. So yeah I think that it creates opportunity for people that really you know want things in the in the greater sense. Like if you really want to stand out it's a lot easier for for those that aren't using AI now.
SPEAKER_00It's tough for the applicants too because I've heard so many stories of people applying to like 200 jobs and not hearing anything back. So I I find it hard to fault people who are being sold into this AI system of like you need to get through our AR AI scan tool before you an actual person reads your resume and then they're like well I'll just use AI to write all my resumes because then I can but I know so Carolyn was the the lady that I've had on a couple times that does the resumes and that would drive her crazy. She'd be screaming right now if I told her people should maybe use AI for resumes but it's just a downward downward spiral of chaos and I don't know where it's going to break but I don't think it can continue like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah I mean again I don't want to go down the whole poo pooing AI Avenue. I use it no I like it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah but um I'm with you for ideation and just like laying things out I totally get it but there's definitely people that lean on it way too heavily I mean even at conferences um we went to one in Miami probably six eight months ago and people were handing out flyers. It's an aviation conference and people are handing out flyers for their product that have AI generated airplanes on them that have like the main gear and the one main gear in the middle of the fuselage and like just you can't you can't do that.
SPEAKER_01No, no and especially not in our industry I think it's like you lose credibility so quickly in aviation and so and that's again like a big part of why like we've been so successful at what we've been doing here is because like we get it and because we've been doing it for so many different brands we really can see how it can impact things. And outside of that too it's like although I might be the only pilot that is on my team because everything we do is aviation they learn very quickly what the standards are and not just that like you know my my my team knows more about helicopters than I do. Like because they they're in it like all the time um and whereas like me I like I've learned so much just through like my husband and you know writing stories. But like sometimes there's so many little like niche things that like I don't even know. So it's really great to have this team that like really gets it um so we don't lose that credibility because it's it's crazy you can you know put one wrong post up and you know lose a potential client, prospective customer, whoever it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. On that same vein, how much should people that are looking to get a job in aviation be sharing publicly online about maybe more specifically pilots you know that a lot of people have the cameras in the cockpit and they like to film their flights and all that stuff and I have agreements and disagreements with both sides of the argument, but how much do you think should be shared online for job applicants?
SPEAKER_01I think that if I were gunning for a job in the airlines I probably wouldn't be sharing as much as I do. I think I'd probably be a little bit more careful myself. Mostly because I guess it's just like you gotta match like the professional like standards of whatever job you're trying to line yourself up for. And I I know I mean like you we hear about it in the industry like um just people that focus too much on filming as opposed to what they're doing and ruin the customer experience. At the end of the day like you are being paid to do a job um and although it's a very cool job that you might want to share online that's not necessarily like how your employer might feel about it. And so um I think I'd be a lot more careful. I think it just in like I don't know I I think that it really depends where you want to go um and what that what that airline portrays on their social media channels. And um yeah it's just it's that's like a loaded question because you know I've heard horror stories of people being let go because of things they've posted or losing opportunities because of something they've posted. Um so I think that you I you do have to be careful. I feel like I've been really lucky in the sense that like I've been able to just really be authentically myself because I haven't had I haven't applied anywhere ever like I haven't had the fear of rejection to deal with um so I I've never really had to think of that as a consequence to a post that I have put up but I think that if I was going to you know apply for the airlines or somewhere corporate flying I'd be I'd probably not have a public profile. And I'd I I probably or at least on on Instagram and I think I'd be a little bit more careful about how I was being perceived online just with photos um and posts and things like that for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I've definitely had pictures with some of my friends that fly actually my buddy that is uh flying for the airlines now he had a job on a Lear 60 in his last leg ever he had an empty leg and I got to ride with him which was really cool. It was a cool experience. But um you know they're very careful about like you can take pictures in the airplane but no pictures of the tail number like if you take pictures in the cockpit just block out the you know all the stuff and so yeah some people definitely have to be a lot more careful than others.
SPEAKER_01I know it really sucks though because I really when you ask that question all I want to say is like send it like just be yourself.
SPEAKER_00But it's crazy too when you see just the differences in the airline so I'm just thinking like the influencer circle that I'm familiar with right like um my layover life flies for United post stuff yeah all the time great great content and United uses him in their advertisements so they love that he's being that outward facing public image. There's a couple Delta pilots that post and then like I don't know personally of any American pilots that post at all. So I don't know if Americans just like uh uh like you're not doing it here or or what the deal is but I guess it really does depend on where you're trying to go and and who's interviewing you or researching you at the time because those people have different opinions on the stuff too and you know one recruiter might be okay with your stuff and one might not be yeah yeah exactly yeah for sure it can be a bit of a luck of the draw for sure you kind of already answered this but do you think having no online presence could hurt you professionally?
SPEAKER_03I mean I think I don't know if I would say it would hurt you.
SPEAKER_01I think it's only advantageous just even to have like a picture next to your name just to say like that this person really exists. Yeah. Um I don't think I don't think it would hurt. Um I can understand why people are so cautious about you know putting their imagery out there and their name and all of that. Um I don't know. I think too I'm curious to know what you think in in the sense that like aviation is such a small community but then we do have so many like up and coming pilots that like nobody knows who they are. So um you know putting yourself out there on social media for them is probably an advantage.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Yeah I I'm with you where I think it depends a lot on where you're trying to go um I know a lot of people that fly corporate that have a big online presence and aren't afraid to post their opinions about stuff. And I I guess it depends on who you fly for but I'm almost certain that whoever flies like Elon around has never posted a picture of them in the airplane. Or you know it's like it's just so up in the air on on where you're trying to go. And then there's people that have probably built their careers off of just posting aviation content online and and not just the people that are only influencers but the ones that have grown into other careers sales positions or or whatever marketing positions for some of the manufacturers and it started with whatever their content was in the beginning. So I I think if you're creative and you I don't want to say you know what you're doing but you have an idea and you're not just like posting random wild shit all the time then yeah it's probably gonna help you out because it gets your name out there which is helpful but you can also get your name out there in a bad way which you don't want to do yeah definitely you have to tread carefully I used this example at a conference recently I spoke at and I I got a similar question and I was like oh like what do you want to be remembered for or like how do you want to be remembered in general and like here's a perfect example.
SPEAKER_01I until recently was a smoker have been smoking for many years but I've never posted myself as a smoker because I didn't want to be thought of as a smoker. I don't know I didn't want that like perception to follow me. And so I think you just have to kind of keep that in mind too it's like what what do you want people to know about you? Like do you want them to see these parts of you and if yes if you're really excited about that then amazing. Like that's great. Go for it. And then if not then then keep that to yourself and that whatever. I mean is it a big deal that I smoke no is it gonna keep me from getting a job or an opportunity probably not but that's something that I keep close to myself you know um and so there might be other instances that are similar to that.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Yeah and social media is everyone knows but seems to forget is very carefully curated. It's like the the highlight reel of life is you know that's not what that person's life really is. So I would also caution people if you do see aviation influencers online like that's not everything that's involved in whatever they're doing. There's so much more behind it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah no definitely it is definitely it's a it's interesting because um I actually recently and this this might be like a bit of a hot take I feel like last year I almost overshared I was like I was really honest about, you know, different things. And more specifically, I had like one like approach into Oshkosh last year. And regardless of what happened, I shared it because I was like, guess what? Not all my landings are perfect. And this happened. And I feel like I got I got a lot of really negative feedback.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the internet.
SPEAKER_01A lot of it. But also like it kind of got me thinking about this. And this is something that I'm working through currently. So I would love to know everyone's thoughts. Is there space in aviation for for vulnerability? Because I think that the people that appreciated it already knew who I was and what I well, the content I shared. And the attention that got the most, or most of the attention that it got was from people that were spun it into some like negative tirade about how women shouldn't, you know, drive cars, let alone fall-fly airplanes. And so I'm interested, like, is there room for vulnerability in aviation? Because I feel like I have been vulnerable in a lot of different ways. And I don't never necessarily feel like it benefits me. Um, but I'm trying to be genuine and and share like what actually is happening and not just the highlight reel. But there's, you know, the the the other things that come um in behind that.
SPEAKER_00I feel like a lot of the comments I see like that, the n the negative ones, especially when it's gender specific, are people that don't even fly. I see a lot of people that have never like maybe they've gotten their private but they don't fly professionally or whatever. Um because it's it's just nonsense. It's like if you've ever flown with a woman that has been through flight training, so two of the pilots that I flew with, one of the projects that we did was at night, high altitude. Uh so we were relatively low over the ground in high terrain. It was like pretty risky, sketchy kind of operation. There were only two pilots I would fly with out of our group. One was the guy that flew the Lear 60, I've known him forever. He's a great pilot. The other one was a female, and like I knew her brother, she came in, he she flew with that guy that I flew with, and he's like, she's great. And so those are the only two that I would fly with, and I would stick up for her at any point because I've seen her fly and I know that she's gonna do just fine. And it's just crazy the reason I say that I don't think any of the people that make those comments fly is anyone who's gone through any significant level of training in aviation knows that you have to be willing to share the failures to make the system better. If you're not willing to talk about the failures in like a no-judgment zone, then it's just setting everybody up for disaster. So like anyone who's flown has screwed up a landing, they screwed up an approach, like maybe they've busted airspace, like it stuff happens. We're humans. And the people that aren't willing to talk about that are the ones that are gonna be more dangerous in the long run.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, fair, I totally agree. Thank you. I needed that peptop.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm here for you, but yeah, that's a that's another one that drives me nuts because it's just like you you clearly don't know what you're talking about. If you're well, I think too, it's like yeah, sometimes it's not even just gender though.
SPEAKER_01Um honestly, most of the time it's not actually. Most of the time it's like, well, she should have kept the stick further back. Or like somebody will like cut my video and then put it on Facebook and it'll be on some like old man forum where like everyone's critiquing and they're like, no, she should have put the stick forward. And I'm just like, you know what?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, I didn't mean to.
SPEAKER_00And there's a place to talk about like what you would have done, right? Like if you do it in a constructive way, there's that's the debrief right there. But if you're like, well, what I would have done is like, you don't know, you weren't flying an airplane. Yeah. What what you would have done from your couch, yeah, that counts for a lot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I learned a lot.
SPEAKER_00I so Trent Palmer's one that I appreciate because he shares a lot of his I don't know what you incidents or near misses or whatever you want to call them. And he gets a lot of hate for that too. But it's being vulnerable and saying, here's what happened, so you know, one, I can get some like public feedback, and two, so it doesn't happen to somebody else. Like, here's what I did, here's what happened. Hopefully you won't do the same thing. And I really appreciate the people that have a big public following that are willing to share that kind of stuff. And it's gotten him, it's gotten him in trouble. Like FISDO calls him all the time from what it seems like. Seems like he is very friendly with the FISDO because they get to talk a lot. Uh because people report his videos and whatever else. But yeah, it's tough.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, it's um it's it's just like it's an interesting community because you have a lot of really passionate people with a lot of like opinions, and so it can be it can be really hard at times, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Kind of tying into that. So I'm I grew up golfing. I am terrible at golfing now, but I used to be okay. Uh, but I still like to follow a lot of golf stuff, and there's this debate in the golf community right now, grow the game versus shrink the game. So basically saying, should we kind of loosen up the old kind of stuffy rules and let more people into the world of golf? Or do we need to push more of those people out because it's ruining what the sport is supposed to be? Right. So like people will post pictures and of people in cargo shorts and flat billed hats on the golf course, and they're like, oh, shrink the game kind of thing. Um when it comes to aviation, do you think the pilot influencers, and obviously there's a spectrum here, there's some terrible ones, some great ones, but in general, do you think that's good or bad for the industry? Do you think we need to grow the industry of aviation, or should we get more back to the roots?
SPEAKER_01So I'm gonna speak from a GA perspective. Because I don't know that the industry needs more help or anything like that. Um I think it's astonishing and honestly super scary to see how few young people are getting involved in GA. And I think that influencers are of the most important thing to keep that going, to keep introducing aviation to young people. And I think that they are more approachable in some senses than airline pilots. So I think that they can be a really cool first touch point for somebody that's like generally interested and maybe wants to make it a career. Um it's I think it's been really cool to see how even through my following, I literally I got a message from oh gosh, I forget his name now, but I got a message from this guy, and he said, this was just last week. He was like, um, he's an ex-paralympian from Europe. And he was saying that how like my flying journey has really inspired him, and now he's actually getting his license. Um that's cool. And like that's so badass. That's so cool. And so I don't think that people realize how they how much uh they can inspire others and in any sense. Like you can be wearing a pilot's uniform and be inspiring other people, but at least for GA, um, it's it's really hard. Like GA is kind of like it's a it's very unapproachable. Like it's very challenging to get involved in this world of GA for a number of reasons. Usually you have to have an airplane. That's that's just how it works. Um, and so to A, be able to have people share their journeys of either like building their own planes, like the you know, the Aaron Pauli of the world that like are building their plane, then going adventuring, or like, you know, Bruno, who's you know, traveling all over North America with his um uh oh gosh, I always forget, is it a cheetah or a tiger now? I think it's a tiger.
SPEAKER_00Tiger, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but he's got this like a really fun charismatic perspective on like, and he's so funny and witty in the how the way he like puts everything together. Um, but then you also have like, you know, the the cool perspective of like the flight instructor with um Josh uh in Aviation 101 and Chelsea, like the maintenance side. So I think that all of these influencers I just named are GA influencers, um, and they all tap into like of like a specific interests within this big net, and hopefully they're gonna, you know, catch the interests of young people across the country, across the world, who are like, oh wow, like, you know, I really relate to Chelsea. I like to get my hands dirty and work on engines, and maybe I'd like to fly a plane, or maybe I relate to Bruno because he's from Brazil, and now he's living in America, now he's flying a plane, or maybe I relate to Aaron and Polly because they're married and I'm married, and I want to do something cool with my husband, like that. And so I think it's incredibly important. I think it's like the key to keeping GA alive moving forward.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I agree. I think so much of aviation has turned to the airlines just because of the pay post-COVID and the rush to get people there and the growth of that industry. That you you talked about it earlier, where people aren't going to do these other things in GA and getting these experiences and skill sets. Um, and I've talked about that before, too, where I think we're harming the skill set of pilots at the highest level in the airlines because they're all doing, again, homogeneous. I'm gonna go to ATP, I'm gonna do this, this, and this. Everybody does the exact same program, everybody has the exact exact same skill set because they all did the same thing to get there. And then none of them go off and do bushflying in Alaska, none of them go do seaplanes in the Caribbean or the Bahamas and all this other stuff. And it's like if you have an entire industry of people that have all only done one thing for their entire career, what does that say for the industry? And then when something goes wrong, what are the chances that they're gonna be able to pull from some other skill set to fix the issue?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I and then GA2 has gotten so expensive, like you mentioned. Um, I like seeing mosaic past. I I hope more manufacturers will take advantage of that. I like seeing people like Carson, who's been building the Zenith aircraft. I think he's got a great way that he tells his stories. Um that he's super unique in the way that he does it. I think he's really getting more people interested into Kip planes. And you know, I never I probably still never would, but I became more interested in Kip Plains after watching his stuff than I was before. Um but I think uh didn't Josh and Chelsea just get did they just build one too?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they did. They built a sling. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So seeing more people do that, I hope, brings that barrier to entry down and gets more people involved. Um, so not everybody has to start in a clapped-out 150 and can't fly when it's over like 90 degrees.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just it is hard though, because we have like life is just so expensive in general. Yeah. Like it is insane. So like buying an airplane is expensive, maintenance is expensive, fuel, hangarage, all of these things. But then like just your like living expenses are insane, and you know, the cost of living keeps going up, and um, it's becoming like increasingly more difficult, you know. You have to suddenly prioritize like, oh, am I getting married this year, buying a house, having a baby, or buying an airplane? Like, which one which one are you gonna choose? I know which one I'm gonna choose, but um, it's hard for people to to do that. And even honestly, just if you could do one of them, it's usually like the most expensive venture. So I think that there's also a lot of benefit too um to leveraging um I'm gonna call them our seniors in the aviation community. I think that there's a lot of people that aren't flying their airplanes nearly enough as much as they should. And um, I know that I got a lot of time as a younger pilot um flying as a safety pilot for um a few gentlemen, but one in particular who just wanted to fly but legally couldn't. Um so I think that there's there's opportunity there for getting involved. Um, but it's it's hard. Like, and I mean, I'll be honest, even I don't know if I could afford a plane right now. I mean, I'm very lucky where I now I'm uh I've recently become a sales rep for aviat, um, and I have a demo plane in the hangar, but um there's I don't I don't think I could afford it right now to buy a plane and deal with all the expenses. And um yeah, it's it's it's it's hard. It's the world we're living in, it's um becoming increasingly more challenging to make you know our aviation dreams a reality.
SPEAKER_00One more thing on the on the social media content side, and then we can continue. Um but where do you see aviation content going in the future? You talked about more of the storytelling aspect. Um, do you think more people so let me let me go back actually? You're talking about your background in photography, how much you love that. I what I'm seeing, so like old days of YouTube, right? Somebody got an old camcorder and they would film something that they love doing just because they love doing it, and like that was super cool to see because of the passion. Now you're getting more people that have the passion still, but they're also excellent in the storytelling, they're excellent in the videography and photography. So it's becoming like mini movies, and even with short form content, like the quality is outstanding. Do you see that continuing, or do you see it maybe regressing a little bit to kind of open it up where people can get involved and grow an audience when they just have the passion?
SPEAKER_01I hope it regresses, honestly. Mostly because, and I think that so you're totally right. There's so many, especially in our like aviation world um and community, there's so many pilots who are also like really good storytellers and also like they they happen to be videographers or have been cinematographers for years and like are really good at it, um, which is great. But with what I'm seeing on our side of things, um, because we support many different brands with their social media, it's usually like the raw content that actually performs better than any like super polished, over-edited piece of content. And so I'm actually hoping that creators in general actually kind of step away from thinking that they have to have this like, you know, documentary style video that they have to put out and actually just put something together that's like a little bit more unfinished, unpolished, just putting it out there because I was excited about it and here it is. Like I actually didn't really film very much of my flight, but here's the landing. Like, you know, I think that would be really cool to see.
SPEAKER_03I think that I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if that's the direction we're going in. It just seems like it's even more polished. And I mean, myself included, like I I like I feel like I'm just so used to using the same equipment. So naturally, like it's always gonna be a f a certain like like finish or like quality. Um and I'm probably I'm usually like just so used to creating content the same way that I I don't usually put together anything that's like overly unpolished either. So maybe that's the challenge to like just be more authentic, more I don't know, less thought out, less um I don't know, like conscripted, I guess. It's more sc less scripted. Um, but that'd be really cool to see. Um and I think I've seen a lot of great videos come out that were like that when a lot of and a lot of people really loved it. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00I feel like TikTok was like that for a little while. I other than the stuff I post for the podcast, I'm never on there. I I don't even want it on my phone. I have it on another phone. But yeah, it's just it it almost gets to a point where people start seeing sharing as unachievable too for like the average person. They see the super polished, like really nice looking photos and videos. And not saying that this is why I I do it, but I I have found myself not posting as much on like my personal accounts too, because I look back at my Instagram posts from even like 2015, 2018, I'm like, that looks terrible. Why would I ever post that? And then you know, I go through and like curate it and move that into the archive, and then I'll post like two things a year now. And oh yeah, I'd and also I just don't want to I'm not as public about stuff as I used to be, but yeah, I I hope more people are willing to share. I think there's tools that make it easier to share stuff that still looks nice, like cell phone video quality is insane now. Um, you don't even really need action cameras anymore when those used to be like almost a necessity, and now you can just get a clamp and hook your phone wherever. Um, so yeah, I hope more people do share and that it goes back to just and there's still a lot of people that get find success just being super passionate, even if their quality is not great. There's um I'm into guns too, and uh Forgotten weapons is a channel I follow, and his camera quality looks like it's from 2009, has been the same the entire time the channel has existed, and he still has you know millions of followers and whatever, and his videos are good because he's just passionate and does the research and makes good quality content. So yeah, I hope it goes back that way a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, and I think too, like because we are merging more into like the storytelling era, people and obviously the algorithm has changed and now what it prefers is like saves. Like anything that I save is usually stuff that like A, I want to go back to because they're it's like educational or um sometimes it's like a format. I'm like, oh, like the way they put this together is so unique and fun. I want to save this so I can like look at it later. Um but I I hope that it turns into that. But it's funny, like for the raw and polished stuff performs the best for most of our clients. So um it's uh it's yeah, it's uh definitely something we we encourage.
SPEAKER_00You mentioned that you run a creative agency called Avian. Can you talk about what you guys do that maybe like a traditional agency can't do or doesn't do?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So um so we we offer a full-scale marketing agency. So um I think sometimes like when people think agency, they think just like social media. So we do everything from like web design to marketing collateral. So like whether that's for like, you know, an event, booth setup, like whatever that happens to look like for your business. Um, we do ads, um Google ads, um, social media uh content production to management to um editing long format videos, um, to newsletters and everything kind of in between. So we do all of that in the marketing realm. And truthfully, um, sometimes we get businesses that are not aviation related that knock on our door and they're just like, my cousin recommended you guys. And and sure enough, like uh we did uh like this is a funny fact. Um, we built the website for uh my good friend Mindy um Schmindy, her brother's roofing website. We built that. So we do we do a lot of other things, but our like bread and butter, like 98% of our business is aviation-based. And we kind of spoke it to it earlier today. Um aviation is so hyper-specific, and you lose you risk losing credibility very quickly. Um there's a lot of uh businesses that also just like don't have the capacity and don't have the time to teach a non aviation marketing company like the lingo or just like procedures or any of that. And so that's where we really shine. We're we're like not to see like I'm really selling you on this, but we're a turnkey solution. Um Um but but we are. And that's that's what's really nice is that we we work with the company, we get to understand their brand, but once we once we understand that, there's real like we we really jump into it pretty quickly. Um and there's not a lot of oversight that's necessary. And so it's really great to just have a team that A can handle everything or just whatever you need. So in some instances, we are your entire marketing company, and in other instances, we're just that team that you call out when you need something done. Um and so it's cool because we get a like a breadth of, you know, or a variety of work. Um, but it's also really important to me, more specifically, because I'm just like so I don't know, invested um in this community in so many different ways, so many different levels. Um, so it's important to me for everything to be um perfect. And that's the standard in aviation um for a number of different reasons. So um that's what we bring to the table.
SPEAKER_00So aside from the roofing companies you mostly work with, with aviation companies, yeah. What have you learned about building a company that serves a niche industry?
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. Well, it's actually not um very different from what we've spoken to before. Um how so much of our business uh has um come to fruition uh just based off referral. So like just the connections in the industry. And so doing your job really well is really important. But I'm also of the belief that like always um over deliver on everything. Every like your work is a representation of who you are, and so truthfully, this I think is not specific to this uh crazy niche that we work in, um, but to all industries. If you do anything and do it like uh perform above expectations, you are always gonna be a standout. And that's what we try and do with all of our work, um you know, from the smallest job to the biggest. And I think that that really like has fed the flames um or the fire that has like kind of sustained and continued to carry this business into like so much growth. Um but yeah, it in in this niche, it's it it's really not that it's funny because aviation, it's not like it's that different. You still like every every company still wants like fun, creative, out-of-the-box ideas. So we still get to use our fun, creative brains to develop all these great things for our clients. It's just with an aviation lens. It's like, oh, well, we can't post this because it's illegal. Or maybe we should make sure that the not like the airspeeds are correct, or like all the it's it's really it's really not that difficult. It's just it's so consistent that you need to be watching it all the time. And when your whole world is aviation, um, it matters.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Does it ever feel like you're getting burned out on your hobby since you love aviation so much outside of work? Um, I actually just went shooting yesterday with my neighbor. He works at Smith and Wesson, and they're like right across the river from where I live. And he was saying that there's a guy that he works with. His job at Smith and Wesson is to shoot the guns that they just assembled, make sure they all function properly. And then once he's done with that, he goes home and shoots at the range, and then on the weekends shoots in competitions. So that's like all he does. I'm like, I would go insane. I wouldn't want to see a gun after I left work if that's all I did all day. Does it ever feel like that to you?
SPEAKER_01No, never, not once, not for a second. And you know what? The day that it does happen, I'll have to rethink maybe, you know, where I'm at. But um, I make a a concerted effort to focus on my flying and have that be a priority. Like legitimately, this probably sounds terrible. I hope, but not at my clients are listening. Wait, you're my client. No. Um, no, the reality is if if the weather's really good and it's, you know, two o'clock on whatever day, and the, you know, the stars have aligned, and I'm not going to be missing out on any big meetings, like, I'll go to the airport and I'll go fly. Like, it's important for me. It's important, and and I've like had honest conversations with my clients about that too. It is in their best interest for me to be as inspired as possible at all times, including my team. And that's why we like we do things differently at my company. We have four-day work weeks. Um, we like alternate. So our clients still get like, you know, five days worth of access to us, but everyone only works 32 hours a week at my company, aside from me. Um, and I think it's important because creative burnout is such a huge thing that happens in our industry. And I want everyone here to have like the freshest ideas and like come in to work like energized and excited and like just have like have a good vibe about you know the outlook for the week and not just like be dragging ass. Um, and I need that too. And so whenever I'm flying somewhere for work, you bet that there is some crazy weird side quest I'm going on. Um like that is just what I do. Um and it's it's like also it's contributed to, you know, my my growth as a pilot, my knowledge as a pilot and person in this industry too. Um, so I think by prioritizing the things that I love to do, it's helped me um kind of separate the two a little bit. But yeah, there is there's a lot of overlap. But when you love what you do, you know, you never work a day in your life or something like that. Blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's good. And I think the clients that you work with, I assume understand, but I would hope they would understand that if you're coming to someone as an aviation company and you want them to represent your aviation company, they should probably be doing aviation to just live the message that they're trying to convey.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, for sure. I also I've learned too, is like and this is like a general statement, not just for business. Like, I'm not for everybody. My business is not for everybody. And so if that doesn't align with with what your goals are or what you think, you know, the your partner should be doing in this, you know, then that's okay. Um, but here anyway, like that's that's how we kind of stay on top of things. And we do like field trips to the airport, like we'll bring the team and they'll do a deep dive on like the PC twelve, or like take apart an engine, or like we do, we do things like that because it's important to that we stay creative and continue to understand aviation and deepen our knowledge every day. Sure. Um, so yeah, that's yeah, that's successful.
SPEAKER_00That's probably cool. Coolest work environment ever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's not bad. It's not bad.
SPEAKER_00Gonna go take an engine apart today for work.
SPEAKER_01Well, that is a cool job in itself. We don't get to do that all the time, obviously, but we do plan. Like, I'm I'm just actually lining up our next field trip, and I'm gonna we're having a flight instructor come and do ground school for our team. Again, like we're not all pilots, so really like going through all that is important. And then I'm just waiting for another demo plane to arrive, and then I'll be taking everyone flying. So, like, there's always like cool things that we're layering in to continue to make aviation like really like ingrained and indoctrinated in everything that we do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that. I think it's meant to be shared. Aviation is something that's not as fun alone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, wasn't that is it um Alexander something tramp from that book? And it's like happiness is only real when shared. I'm I'm I from I forget his name, but I'm not misquoting him, but I absolutely believe that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What's the most interesting client or project that you've worked on?
SPEAKER_01Hmm. Um, we recently worked with Lycoming actually on their TBO extension that they announced at Oshkosh, which was really, really exciting.
SPEAKER_00I almost wore my Lycoming shirt today. I missed an opportunity for co-branding.
SPEAKER_01Oh. But yeah, no, they um like they have an astounding, like really great um internal marketing team. But they're like sometimes often what happens with our clients is like they just don't have the bandwidth. And with events like that, it's just there's so many things going on. So we had a chance to support them with um the creative and the ad work um and the copy for for that whole project. So that was really cool. Um, we've also been supporting Heartzel um propellers recently with um some design projects, which have been really, really cool. Um and um they also have like an exceptional team that we love working with. Um and then we started to work with Whipair this year, so really excited about that. So now we manage their social media accounts, um, which has been really fun um for a number of reasons. Obviously, like I mean, float flying, it's just magical. Yeah. Um, and it's a very cool product. So obviously they they do a lot of things outside of that that a lot of people don't know about. So that's kind of our mission is like, you know, figuring out how we can share all the different facets of that business with the public. Um, so there's always like some sort of challenge in with each client, um, in a in a broader sense, in a good sense. Like you're just trying to be creative in how you um tell the stories um that are important to them to obviously continue to grow their business. So those are just a few. But we work with so many others. Air Bravo is another one that's really cool. We took them on in on uh January. We we do the like the full-scale marketing kind of spectrum for them. Um and they're an operation out of Northern Ontario that do a lot of cool, they have like a really cool operation. They'd have uh 23 PC 12s that they fly like all over the place, um, supporting remote communities. Yeah. Really, really big. So yeah, they they do um the great work too. But I mean, that's just that's just like what for like the recently that we've been working with, and there's so many more. So um, yeah, there's also some cool apps that we're working with. Um, but yeah, we're we're just like, yeah, we're just thrilled. It's super fun. It's a great way to be creative.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. When when clients come to you, are they just kind of like, here's all our stuff, do it all, or do they come and say, we have this one project we want you to work on, and we have maybe other agencies or internal groups that work on other projects?
SPEAKER_01It's it's varied. It comes in different shapes and forms. Um so for example, with um with some clients, it's just like one project. And it's like, for example, like we need a logo um and we need a brand deck, like a guideline for our new company. And that might be the only thing we ever do for them. And that's okay. Um but what's cool is that again, when a company approaches us with that, we already we've heard so many aviation company names that we know we we a have a good idea as to what you should or shouldn't name an aviation company, but also we do all the research behind it too to help them if they need that support. Um, but then in some cases, we are like a full-scale, they're they're only marketing team, and we do everything from like um the ground up. So it it varies. Um some in some cases we're like on a retainer basis, and then on others we're just like um, you know, just plugging one hole for them and that's it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, very cool. What would be your recommendation if there's someone young that's coming into the industry and they don't know anybody that flies or works in aviation at all, where should they start networking today?
SPEAKER_03Hmm.
SPEAKER_01Um I think the best spot is your local airport. So if you could get out there, um obviously there's airports of different shapes and sizes. Um, some are bigger than others. I would honestly go to all of them. Like, we have so many different um, I don't know, there's different airports with different vibes. Some are more professional, some are like, you know, more grassroots GA vibes. Um so it kind of just depends what you want to align with. But overall, the airport is like the best place you can go for a number of reasons. Not only are there obviously airplanes there where you can learn about different types of airplanes and airframes, um, there's usually loads of different businesses that are associated with, you know, these airports. You can easily get work there if you really want, whether, you know, like I think it's a rite of passage for most people to like, you know, fuel planes at some point in time. Um just to like get your hands like physically touching airplanes. I know that sounds kind of creepy and maybe a little bit weird, but but it is important. Like I I learned so much cleaning airplanes. Um I think that there's a lot of value in that, but also just like looking up to see if there's any events coming up, um any clubs that you can join. Um, and then also, yeah, absolutely, like, you know, put yourself out on social media. I've met most of my closest friends on Instagram, which is crazy to think of. Um, and a lot of people actually thought it was really weird when I when I first started like telling them that I met all these wonderful strangers all over North America. Um, at least like my normal friends back home were like, oh, that's different. But um now they get it. Now they get it.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of like online dating was 20 years ago, and now it's just the norm.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I feel like too, I take it to extremes. Like I have, I have like legitimately, and for this is probably not like honestly something I would suggest, but I I just I have like a hitchhiker mentality sometimes. Um I will show up in random places and then just post a story and be like, I'm here for like 24 hours, like who's around? And I legitimately have met total, complete strangers at bars and restaurants and cafes. And I have to tell you, like some of the coolest experiences I've had because of that. Um here's one example. I was in Inuvic, which is like on the Arctic, like one of the most northern places you can get to in Canada. Um, and I posted a story being like, oh, I'm here. Whoever wants to like come out for a drink. And so I met this guy that was a long lining, um, he was a long liner for one of the helicopter companies up there. And he was taking samples of Silinity in like the Arctic Ocean.
SPEAKER_00And crazy.
SPEAKER_01He knew where there was this huge pod of beluogas, like hundreds of them. He was so we were leaving the next morning, and I was telling him, I'm like, I really want to go see these beluogas. I don't know where to find them though. And he's like, they're all here. Like you have to fly right here, go to this point, and you'll see them all. And we did, and it was legitimately like hundreds of them. I've never seen anything like it in my life. And like, if I hadn't done that, then who knows? I probably would have not shared this story. But um there's there's like I don't know. I guess obviously there's risk to that too. Always you want to do it in a safe environment, whatever. But um, in the grand scheme of things, I genuinely think that most people are are good people, and so I'm happy to like, you know, meet, hang out, go for coffees or I don't know, share stories. Um, and I think that's really fun.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. Um we talked a lot about social media, but if you could recommend to pilots one way that they could change the way they're using social media right now to maybe put themselves out there more, what would you suggest?
SPEAKER_01Um I think that a lot of people get like analysis paralysis and they're like, oh, this isn't good enough. I look dumb, my hair is stupid. I thought that earlier tonight when I was getting on this call, I was like, oh god. But um I it just it doesn't matter. Nobody's paying that close attention to you. And so if you just get it out there, you're better off than if that's your goal, if you're like wanting to grow up a following, or even not, it doesn't really matter. But if you're wanting to share anything and you're not sharing something because of fear, potentially, as you know, one of the reasons, and um you just need to put it out there. But yeah, I think a lot of people get stuck in like this isn't good enough, this isn't good enough. Um when in reality it's kind of usually those like authentic, genuine, um, off-the-cuff um posts and stories that are like the most um engaging.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. What are resources, organizations, and communities that you would recommend to people getting into aviation?
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh, there's so many. Um okay.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of really great Facebook groups. There's great Instagram like organiz or great organizations you can find on Instagram and other social media platforms. Um I don't know, for women, there's so many. I feel like you know, there's ladies love tail draggers, there's the 99s, there's um women in aviation. Um, but also what I think is really important is supporting the historical organizations. So, for example, I believe that there's a really cool, I forget what it's called, there's a cool organization in Ohio that supports you know the heritage of the WACO, which is cool. Um, there's um the vintage flyers associations. There's so many of these that like just need help in like literally physical help to like keep the organization still going. So that's a really cool way to network. There's also like really great um associations and organizations outside of that too. Like there's an urban pilots um network. Um there that yeah, there's just it's just endless. It's just like literally, that's how you should leverage AI. You should tell AI all your interests within aviation, tell it where you live, and say, what are some like I mean, it doesn't really have to be close to you, but it is nice if you can physically go somewhere and meet people and say, you know, what are some great organizations in aviation that I can get involved with that are like in my backyard? There we go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good use of AI. AI for the positive. And then finally, where can people find you and follow your journey?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you can find me at my house. My address is Gnome.
SPEAKER_00Make friends, right?
SPEAKER_01And buy them over your house. I do, I do that a lot. But um so yeah, no, my handle is pilot 80 for the most part. I'm also airplane Annie on TikTok. Um and I do have a YouTube channel. I don't really post very often there, but I am on there. Um my business is Avian Creative. Um, and you can find us on all the socials um under that name. And yeah, if you really want to reach out, you can also get me at info at pilotannie.com.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Annie, thank you so much. That was great.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you. I feel like I rambled a lot there. Thank you for if you're still listening. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Hey, thanks for listening. If you want to hear more from aviation professionals, just like Annie, you can subscribe to the AirPod on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify. I will see you right back here on the AirPod.